Zenyatta

Queen of Racing

Ask The Experts

Ask The Experts #29

Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo
Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo

Q:

How large is Cozmic One and how does he compare in size to Zenyatta at the same age?

Lib Berry

Phoenix, AZ

A:

Coz is approximately 1,060 pounds and 16’3 at this time. One of the big differences between Coz and Zenyatta is that she has an amazing beam (this is how wide a horse is from hip bone to hip bone). Ziconic, at this stage of his life, is smaller than both Zenyatta and Coz but he does have her beam. Ziconic is robust while Coz is classic in his physical appearance.

Expert: John Shirreffs

Q:

I have great admiration for John as a trainer and Dottie as a manager along with the other very perceptive and knowledgeable team you surround yourselves with.  Knowing how closely you listen to and monitor each horse as an individual, how do you make the decision to run a horse, in what type of race, and on what surface?

Sheryl North

Tucson, AZ

A:For a first time starter, you must feel comfortable with the fact that the horse is physically and mentally ready to start his/her career. Timing and physical condition for a first time starter is more important than the surface.  

As for surface, unless you know a horse prefers either dirt or turf (from the morning training or prior races), I (John) believe that the timing of the race is most important. You want a horse ‘peaking’. If running well on the dirt, then you continue this. If not, and the pedigree is turf oriented, then the turf would be an option.

In most racing jurisdictions, you do not get to train on the turf. 99% of the time horses are training on dirt, so you have a very good opportunity to observe how they handle this surface from the morning workouts. Body language and how the horse moves is also an important concept to examine, review, and consider.

As for selecting races, so much of this is based upon how he/she is  training, both physically and mentally, and the class of the horse. The first goal is to have the horse break his/her maiden. Once this is accomplished, there are allowance races for horses to run in where they can ‘move up the ladder’ and show how much progress they are making and class they are exhibiting.  

Can a horse keep moving up the ladder, meeting more serious competition with success? This is the primary consideration here.

Below are the primary levels for horses to participate in as they are ‘moving up the ladder’:

• Break the Maiden
• First level allowance
• Second level allowance
• Third-plus level and conditioned allowance races
• Listed Stakes
• Graded Stakes: Grade 3, Grade 2, and Grade 1 (which is the best)

If a horse is having difficulty achieving at the various stages of the above levels, there are claiming races for those horses. They are offered at different levels and conditions in the various jurisdictions.

When you are selecting races for a horse, you are basically handicapping the race and the ‘results’ without knowing officially who the other entrants are. The entries are taken days in advance prior to the race. This is where studying races and the competition each day becomes extremely necessary and important. You must know who else is eligible for that condition or what other horse could be planning on the same spot you are. Then you have to consider whether your horse can compete with these horses successfully.

All of these factors are extremely important and must be considered. The goal is always to put your horse in the best race possible for optimum achievement!

Experts: John Shirreffs and Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Our Experts

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John Shirreffs

Trainer

John Shirreffs has been around horses all of his life and has always felt it was important to help a horse become significant, to make history. Zenyatta’s Breeders Cup wins helped his dreams come true. Read John’s complete bio.

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Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Racing Manager

As the Moss’ Racing Manager for the last 29 years, Dottie has actively been a part of each Moss horse’s life. It’s a family affair, as her husband John trains many of the horses that she manages. Read Dottie’s complete bio.

Reader Interactions

294 Comments

  1. / Reply

    Goodnight Z
    love you with kisses and your sons too
    love with memories of zprincess and my dear Sir
    Auntie Sally B

  2. / Reply

    How very interesting this is. I had no idea that turf horses had to train on dirt 99% of the time. That must be very confusing to them. We have so much to learn. This taught me one thing: I would never make it as a racing manager.
    Thank you, Team Z, for giving us this information. And thank you, Zenny, for having such beautiful boys!
    Hugs to all.

    • / Reply

      Most U.S. horses do not get to train or race on turf. John was talking about jurisdictions in the U.S., where it’s mostly dirt racing. In places like Europe, it’s the opposite with virtually all horses training and racing on turf with some synthetic tracks.

      • / Reply

        Max,
        Wish we had more turf races. I could be very wrong but it seems the grass is kinder to their feet and legs.

        • There can be serious injuries on turf too, sometimes of a different variety. Dan has proven that there are great turf horses in the U.S. Lea too. Secretariat was superb on turf. Both Belmont and Woodbine can handle mile and a half turf races without going over the same ground. The last leg of the Canadian Triple Crown is a mile and a half on the turf at the EP Taylor course at Woodbine. It was designed to be like an English turf course and is the only one in North America like that. Danny set a course and track record on it in 2013, and the race just looked like a paid workout for Uncle Johnny.

  4. / Reply

    Well Z in just a few short weeks I’ll be visiting Lexington! And I even get to come visit the stallion sat LE! I’ll miss getting to see you of course but I’ll be as close as the public usually gets to you now.

    There are SO many horses to see! I believe War Front is on the list of horses to see. I’ll be sure to tell him you said hi!

  7. / Reply

    John and Dottie, Great answers to interesting questions. I especially like the description of Coz and Zi relative to their body compositions. Love to you and all of Team Z!

    Also the description of various races is very helpful to me as I follow both of Zenny’s boy’s racing careers.

  8. / Reply

    July 18 Cherokee Devotional

    A certain careful handling of business takes over when something makes us feel limited. Whether it is time or money or people, we know they must be utilized in the right spirit. As the Indian says, “Everything is in a circle.” Whatever we set in motion comes back, and often shocks us by how quick and with what impact.
    Such things teach us to stop and think-to consider the use of a word or an act-and even a dollar. When we have material needs, a single dollar given where the need is great cam multiply and come back to us a hundredfold. Even treating someone kindly is an investment, and though it may seem insignificant, when we are weary and sore, we learn how important it is.

    You have noticed that everything an Indian does is in a circle.
    Black Elk
    Oglala Sioux

  9. / Reply

    What a nice way to start the day…a new blog from Team Z. We love the thoughtful questions and equally thoughtful answers from John and Dottie. We always suspected Zi had the “junk in the trunk” as Steve used to say about Zenny. His build is compact and powerful while Coz has the more fluid look of a thoroughbred. It will be interesting to see how each of them develops mentally and physically as racehorses.

  10. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    I get to work today! I hope you have a wonderful Saturday. The furbabies I’ve checked on were doing fine. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

  11. / Reply

    Thank you for sharing another session of Ask The Experts with the knowledge and talents of John and Dottie answering great questions for us. From reading all the blogs and social media out there we find so many people putting forth their own views of races and how horses run and criticizing the trainers and owners, it is so refreshing to be able to read from another perspective the answers that are actually written by people who know the horses and are not speculating. It is definitely not an easy task for y’all but I do so completely enjoy the combined efforts of John and Dottie in bringing us this inside information and allowing us to feel a part of the life of our Queen and the princes. Thank you to all of Team Z for your generosity. Zenyatta still lifts my heart.

  12. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.Oh no,working on a Saturday!!Loved your devotional as always.The golf has been suspended until about 3 or 4pm because of high winds.What do they expect?It’s British summertime in the UK!!They will finish on Monday now.We are playing the French enemy in the Davis cup but boy Giles Simon is a hunky bloke!I mustn’t mention the cricket it’s all downhill at Lords.It’s quite breezy in Wales too but dry and the fledging competition has begun.Bobby bach is stretching his wings this morning.Abby has been a naughty girl again with her ibone.Fubu gets to see his vet on Monday but did eat a bit yesterday.Hope you have a good day.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly,Nikko and Sugar.SheenaXOXO

  15. / Reply

    ‘World’s greatest horse’ Legendary American Pharoah is coming to Australia
    John LehmannEditor at Large The Daily Telegraph July 18, 2015
    Secret plans are being hatched to fly the world’s greatest horse, the Triple Crown-winning American Pharoah, to a Hunter Valley stud to breed a new wave of Australian turf champions.
    The history-making colt — whose breeding rights are believed to be worth as much as US$30 million — is the toast of America after last month becoming the first horse in 37 years to win the hallowed Triple Crown.
    In what would be a huge boost for Australian racing, Coolmore Australia stud boss Tom Magnier revealed he was hoping to bring American Pharoah to the Hunter next July for the spring breeding season.
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/worlds-greatest-horse-legendary-american-pharoah-is-coming-to-australia/story-fni0cx12-1227446388500

    • / Reply

      From the article posted above
      “For Coolmore to send what must be their most valuable investment to Australia, ahead of the United Kingdom or Ireland or Britain, is an incredible vote of confidence in the Hunter Valley.’’
      Mr Magnier said it was a “distinct possibility” Australia’s boom two-year-olds Vancouver and Pride Of Dubai, as well as Europe’s highest-rated three-year-old Gleneagles, could be at Coolmore’s Hunter property beside American Pharoah.
      “Arguably the best of their generations in Australia, Europe and North America, may all stand at our farm in the Hunter Valley for the 2016 breeding season,’’ he said.

      • / Reply

        The United Kingdom and Britain is essentially the same thing. The name of Sheena’s homeland is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The main reason for shuttling to Australia may be that Coolmore would be competing with itself by sending AP to either the UK or Ireland or against Juddmonte with Frankel and Brad Pitt. The distance is so short that it is very easy for British and Euro mares to go to Coolmore in Ireland to visit the likes of Galileo and company. It’s a different faraway market in Australia.

    • / Reply

      So funny you bring up Blingo. I was just thinking of him the other day. I looked him up on equibase and he hasn’t raced since March 2014. I wonder what happened to him too!

      • / Reply

        Dear Roxanne and Cathleen:

        I tried to find an update on Blingo and came up empty.

        On Pedigree Query there are no new notes indicating he’s been sold at auction or privately. Very difficult to keep track of our beloved TBs once they stop racing. He earned almost $500K in 12 starts in his career. Hopefully, he’s found a loving, caring home in his retirement. He’s a Gelding so maybe he’s been trained in another venue. Love and Hugs, JB

  17. / Reply

    Dear Max.Thanks for explaining!Never thought peeps didn’t realize Britain and the UK are one and the same!Coolmore have many great stallions at their base in Ireland and they would all be competing for mares.Have heard AP may shuttle.CC has settled in well at his new home and is going to have plenty of R&R.They are planning an open day for fans to visit in a few months.I am looking forward to Ascot next week and Golden Horn.It’s 40yrs since the race of the century between Grundy and Bustino.It proved to be too much for them as neither won again.They gave their all that day.Great video of your Dan.He’s looking superb.Thinking a lot of Kauto.Hugs Sheena.

    • / Reply

      If AP went to the UK or Ireland for breeding, he would miss the U.S.market because the breeding season is the same. Sending a Triple Crown winner out of the country and missing those mares is not likely to happen. Going to Australia on the other hand in July makes sense, although it might not go over very well with his fans.
      Glad for Chromie. That’s a great R&R for him on the farm, although Rae Guest’s place was not so bad.
      I was thinking of Kauto too and looked sadly at his Twitter page. This is a huge loss. I’m not taking it very well so far. Reminds me of Tasty and Z Princess. Gone too soon. Can only imagine how you must feel.

  18. / Reply

    A salute to California for the new whip rule! Hope Kentucky and other states adopt this or something similar very soon. Broke my heart to see Victor hit AF the way he did in the Derby. Don’t care if he didn’t break skin. That had to be very painful! Realize the whip is needed to help control the horse but their has to be limits.

  20. / Reply

    Dear Sheena:

    Goodnight. Love and Hugs, JB, LM, PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  21. / Reply

    Dear Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Stay comfy and cozy. Love You. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

  22. / Reply

    Dear Max.For some reason last night I finally realized Kauto had gone.There was an article in H&H about the huge responsibility in caring for famous ex-chasers.Charlotte feels that way with Denman and sometimes enters him in competitions in a different name but more often than not he is recognized.He is having a wonderful life with her though.Sadly some are lent to us for a short while and we must treasure every moment with them.Sheena.

    • / Reply

      What a cool thing to do. Famous racehorse has a nom de guerre.
      It would be difficult to disguise that horse. He’s The Tank. Very happy that he’s doing well. He was close to death.
      Frankly, it will be almost impossible to find another horse with the talent and personality of Kauto Star. They do not come along often, so that you are right. We have to marvel when we have them. We are very very lucky to have Z and her family to follow.

  23. / Reply

    Dear Z Fans:

    Should have gone with Mikey in the Eddie Read. Congrats Mikey and Gabriel Charles. Congrats to all the Cappers that won. Love and Hugs, JB

  24. / Reply

    Dear Judy.Have heard the Shermans have removed their FB page.Maybe a new trainer for CC???.The pandas had a good party!Goodnight God bless you LM PC HT Cap Hercules Frank and all the sweeties.Love and hugs SheenaX

  25. / Reply

    American Pharoah will shuttle to Australia when retired. Just read article about this. He is quite a character.

  27. / Reply

    July 19 Cherokee Devotional

    Talk is easy, but listening is better. Mouths have a way of getting away from us-and then we say things we are not committed to-or don’t necessarily believe.
    Others may seem sensitive-too sensitive. But we may be dull and careless. When the mouth starts to work, the mind stops to listen. Where did those words come from? They came from trouble on the horizon. True, some are easily offended-and on the other hand, what would it have cost to be quiet?

    I am the maker of my own fortune.
    Shooting Star
    Shawnee War Chief

  28. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    Hope the day is going well for you. The FB furbabies I’ve visited are doing well. Fibbs was going on a date with himself, hoped he had enough money for popcorn. Zoe looked gorgeous in her pic with purple flowers. Have a blessed Sabbath. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

  29. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.A blessed Sabbath to you too.Pity the link didn’t work CC looks happy in his new home.All the furbabies I have visited are fine and Fubu is eating a little.The golfers are playing today but Andy is struggling against the good-looking bloke Giles Simon and the less said about our cricketers the better!Everyone is happy on the Dyfi.It’s quite cool here today Karen and family have been to Cyprus temps 40F plus.Have you heard about the controversy over the pics posted of Her Majesty in the Sun newspaper?She is livid and we all know where Rupert Murdoch’s loyalties lie.Everyone knew Edward VIII was a Nazi sympathizer and this was in 1933!Have a great day.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly,Nikko and Sugar.SheenaXOXO

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena,
      Don’t these so-called “journalists” have something better to do? Why go digging up ancient pictures of children with their misguided uncle — this isn’t news, and it certainly isn’t relevant. Must have been a very slow scandal-mongering day! I wasn’t around in 1933, but I know of Edward VIII’s pro-Germany leanings, also — he certainly was not the brightest of the line. Sorry that Her Majesty has to be bothered by rubbish such as this.

      Hugs and Love

      • / Reply

        This subject is way off topic for this site, but it’s not so outrageous to know such things if you are British.
        Some media in the UK think that it is relevant because Prince Harry appeared in a Nazi uniform in 2005. He was old enough then to know better. The Prime Minister had to step in after the war to prevent Prince Phillip’s relatives, who had all served in the Nazi military and fought against Britain and the U.S. in World War II, from being invited to the royal wedding of the now Queen.
        Let’s get back to Zenyatta and the horses full time.

  30. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    Glad to hear CC looked happy in his new home. It’s always a good sign when Fubu is eating some. Poor Andy. Hope he has a good day. Glad all the ospreys are happy. Yes, the pics of Her Majesty in the Sun newspaper are all over our new, too. Feeling bad for her. Bye again for now. Have a wonderful day. Hugs, Kathy

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