Zenyatta

Queen of Racing

Ask The Experts

Ask The Experts #29

Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo
Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo

Q:

How large is Cozmic One and how does he compare in size to Zenyatta at the same age?

Lib Berry

Phoenix, AZ

A:

Coz is approximately 1,060 pounds and 16’3 at this time. One of the big differences between Coz and Zenyatta is that she has an amazing beam (this is how wide a horse is from hip bone to hip bone). Ziconic, at this stage of his life, is smaller than both Zenyatta and Coz but he does have her beam. Ziconic is robust while Coz is classic in his physical appearance.

Expert: John Shirreffs

Q:

I have great admiration for John as a trainer and Dottie as a manager along with the other very perceptive and knowledgeable team you surround yourselves with.  Knowing how closely you listen to and monitor each horse as an individual, how do you make the decision to run a horse, in what type of race, and on what surface?

Sheryl North

Tucson, AZ

A:For a first time starter, you must feel comfortable with the fact that the horse is physically and mentally ready to start his/her career. Timing and physical condition for a first time starter is more important than the surface.  

As for surface, unless you know a horse prefers either dirt or turf (from the morning training or prior races), I (John) believe that the timing of the race is most important. You want a horse ‘peaking’. If running well on the dirt, then you continue this. If not, and the pedigree is turf oriented, then the turf would be an option.

In most racing jurisdictions, you do not get to train on the turf. 99% of the time horses are training on dirt, so you have a very good opportunity to observe how they handle this surface from the morning workouts. Body language and how the horse moves is also an important concept to examine, review, and consider.

As for selecting races, so much of this is based upon how he/she is  training, both physically and mentally, and the class of the horse. The first goal is to have the horse break his/her maiden. Once this is accomplished, there are allowance races for horses to run in where they can ‘move up the ladder’ and show how much progress they are making and class they are exhibiting.  

Can a horse keep moving up the ladder, meeting more serious competition with success? This is the primary consideration here.

Below are the primary levels for horses to participate in as they are ‘moving up the ladder’:

• Break the Maiden
• First level allowance
• Second level allowance
• Third-plus level and conditioned allowance races
• Listed Stakes
• Graded Stakes: Grade 3, Grade 2, and Grade 1 (which is the best)

If a horse is having difficulty achieving at the various stages of the above levels, there are claiming races for those horses. They are offered at different levels and conditions in the various jurisdictions.

When you are selecting races for a horse, you are basically handicapping the race and the ‘results’ without knowing officially who the other entrants are. The entries are taken days in advance prior to the race. This is where studying races and the competition each day becomes extremely necessary and important. You must know who else is eligible for that condition or what other horse could be planning on the same spot you are. Then you have to consider whether your horse can compete with these horses successfully.

All of these factors are extremely important and must be considered. The goal is always to put your horse in the best race possible for optimum achievement!

Experts: John Shirreffs and Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Our Experts

js_ate

John Shirreffs

Trainer

John Shirreffs has been around horses all of his life and has always felt it was important to help a horse become significant, to make history. Zenyatta’s Breeders Cup wins helped his dreams come true. Read John’s complete bio.

dottie_ate

Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Racing Manager

As the Moss’ Racing Manager for the last 29 years, Dottie has actively been a part of each Moss horse’s life. It’s a family affair, as her husband John trains many of the horses that she manages. Read Dottie’s complete bio.

Reader Interactions

294 Comments

      • / Reply

        You’re welcome, Peggy. When I saw this, I had to post it. I know that a number of Z fans are praying for this filly to recover.

    • / Reply

      Max,
      Thank you for making our day a little brighter with this good news about Lady Eli. Prayers for this little filly.

    • / Reply

      Thanks for this update on Lady Eli, Max.
      Fingers crossed and lots of prayers and good wishes for a complete, uncomplicated healing. Power Up, LE!
      Hugs

    • / Reply

      I’m so far behind and working from the bottom up here, but thanks for the good news about Lady Eli. We are all pulling for her.

    • / Reply

      Dear Max:

      Thank you so much for sharing this latest news on Lady Eli. Power Up beautiful baby girl. Love and Hugs, JB

    • / Reply

      My prayers go out to Lady Eli. I’ll try getting some information on her and post it tomorrow. So sorry to hear this news. I hope she recovers.

  3. / Reply

    Congratulations to team GB and Andy Murray(yes he’s British again!!!)for beating the French to reach the semi-finals of the Davis cup for the first time since 1981.They will play Australia.The weather has been kind to the golfers at St Andrew’s today.Tiger didn’t even make the cut!!Sheena

  4. / Reply

    War Dispatch, son of Zenny’s baby daddy, War Front, was second in the Prix Eugene Adam in France today. This is a very good horse. He’s always in the money.

      • / Reply

        This is good news for the Mosses that War Front’s offspring are doing well. There is talk of bringing him home to run in the Secretariat Stakes in August. Hope so. Very nice horse.

  5. / Reply

    Beastie is working it at Fair Hill. 1/12 in his latest breeze. If things go well, The Beast might start again at Saratoga.
    It’s been a year now since the Beast’s pal, Big Trouble, raced. Miss him.

    • / Reply

      Dear Max:

      Thanks for this info on Beastie. Looking forward to his return. Wondering how Big Trouble is doing too. Love and Hugs, JB

  6. / Reply

    Dear Dottie, John, Thank You so very much for that wonderful post. I am so greatful for your keeping us informed. Great Information. Coz and Ziconic both just look wonderful. So Thankful John and Dottie they are in your care.

  7. / Reply

    Dear Zenyatta, Been thinking about you this morning and hoping so hard your doing well. Never forget you.
    Also praying so hard for our sick horses especially Lady Eli. (Power Up Beautiful Girl) Will keep praying so hard.
    Zenyatta as I walked outof Church this morning, our pastor stopped me told me that he had some great pictures to show me. He just got back from a trip to Arizona to an Indian Reservation. On a mission trip. He told us all about that, but was telling me about the Free Range horses that he saw that were just magnificient. Zenyatta, I feel bad as I don’t mean to ever forget our free horses. I think of you Thoroughbreds all the time, but want to say some special prayers for them. Zenyatta I just wonder sometimes “How do they survive” And their so magnificient. Cumberland Island, Ga has a Colony of free horses also.
    Love You Zenyatta and all horses, every horse. May God Bless and Keep you all.

    • / Reply

      Dear Peggy, Thank you so much for sharing about the horses in AZ that your pastor saw. Love that he shared that with you. All the wild horses need lots of prayers. We got back from our summer trip, and we saw lots and lots of horses. I’ll put a post about it soon. God’s many blessings to you. with love, Elizabeth

  8. / Reply

    Rachel’s Valentina just posted another work. Think it won’t be long until she starts. Seems to really be her mother’s daughter. Looks as if she is going to beat both her big brother, Jess’s Dream, and our beautiful Red Prince to the track. Hope Todd is very very careful with her.

    Pardon my rambling but if you want to see one rock star looking horse. Go to Texas Red’s FB. He will make you sit up and stare! Not as beautiful as a couple of boys we know, but one good looking dude.

    • / Reply

      Dear Shirlee:

      Thanks for the info on Rachel’s Valentina. Will check out TR’s photos. Love and Hugs, JB

        • Judy,
          Thanks for posting the photo of Red. As you know I am not very skilled at computer stuff plus mine is on its last legs. Takes forever just to get on the blog. Going to have to spring for a new one soon. Bless you for all you do for us on this blog. Hope Lola Mae is still doing well.

        • Dear Shirlee:

          Thank you so much for your sweet comment.

          Lola Mae is doing well, but she’s not bearing weight on the leg all of the time. I’m glad we’re seeing the doctor on the 31st; want to make sure this is normal. She is not in pain and taking her “guard duty” very seriously once again. Thank you for asking for her. Love and Hugs, HB

    • / Reply

      It seems like Jess’s Dream might have had some sort of set back. He was here in South Florida with Kiaran McLaughlins string last winter, and was posting some fast works and looking like he would start in the spring, then it seemed he was sent back to Stonestreet. Not really sure why. Looking forward to seeing Rachel’s Valentina start. And talking filly’s to watch – Baffert has a filly named Pretty N Cool that looks to be one to watch. She’s been posting blazing works and broke her maiden impressively at first asking today at Del Mar.

      • / Reply

        Dear kw:

        Was wondering about Jess’s Dream so I checked for workouts and he had a work at Saratoga on 7/12/15:

        Saratoga 7/12/2015 Dirt 4F 50.98 Breezing 15/19

        Hopefully, he’s better and back on track. Love and Hugs, JB

        • Judy,
          I have seen some speculation on the Forum that he is plagued with hives and some other issues. Not much coming out of Stonestreet about him. He seems to take more after Curlin who was a bit of a late bloomer than Rachel. His little sis, Valentina, is one hot pepper.

        • Thanks JB. I did see that he was back at Saratoga – I have him in my virtual stable ;) I hope they have things resolved with him.

          Shirlee, looking forward to seeing Valentina start!

          I came across Pretty N Cool when I was curious what horse had outworked American Pharoah’s 59.2 5F workout almost two weeks ago, and saw it was a 2 year old, unraced Baffert trained filly. She broke her maiden in style over the weekend so I’m looking forward to watching her as well.

    • / Reply

      Thanks for letting us know. Has Jess’ Dream raced yet? They are both in my virtual stable. I haven’t seen any entry notices for Jess’ Dream.

  9. / Reply

    So glad to hear CC will go to Taylor Made Farm here in the US. And that he is getting some needed Rest and Relaxation. Sorry that Steve sold his interest in CC and not Perry. Steve had great affection for CC and was not afraid to show it. Wish all the best to Chrome and his new team.
    Thanks John for all the info on Coz….He is one big beautiful colt And his handsome brother looks like he is ready to race.

    • / Reply

      I was surprised to read that Steve sold his 30 % to Taylor Made. They are so connected to Chrome I would have thought that would want to be sure Chrome’s future was 100 percent secure first. I am very happy that Chrome will remain in the U.S. I really couldn’t bare it if he was sold overseas.

      • / Reply

        I think he also was tired of the conflict and antics of the Martin’s and knew if he
        cashed out early with Taylor Made it would stop. CC is now ina great place back
        with Art and a 2016 game plan in the US with Taylor Made directing it-they are horsemen. Martin is no longer in control. A win win for CC and Sherman and Taylor Made. Great political move by the Coburn’s !!!

    • / Reply

      Sheena, So thankful CC will be alright and will remain under Art Sherman direction.
      hugs, Sally B

  11. / Reply

    Zenny not very quiet and joyfull information on Chromy, dont know why i like google ” youtube California Chrome returns to los alamitos race course ” , google ” youtube belmont stakes California Chrome leaves for california ” , i wish him beautyful california mares but this is from clouds, beautyfull Zenny Ziconic Coz and mates stay comfy kiss your soft noses

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena:

      Glad Mr. Sherman will continue training CC. Goodnight. Love and Hugs, JB, LM, PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  13. / Reply

    Dear Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Happy Dreams. Love You. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

  14. / Reply

    Thanks for the interesting questions and answers. I always learn so much on the blog. Power up Lady Eli!!

  15. / Reply

    Dear Dottie and John,
    Such a great ask the experts-how interesting that Ziconic has Zenyatta’s amazing beam,
    Although not her size. Maybe that is why he is so fast along with having Tapit as his Sire.
    love that classic CoZ.
    love and hugs to you both

    • / Reply

      Ziconic’s beam should be amazing. He inherited not only his Mom Zenny’s big rear engine, but he’s also got that big sloping rump that comes straight from his 3-times great grandfather Big Red. Zi has probably got infinite gears to work with, and he’ll never use even half of them.

      • / Reply

        I am not sure all of that can be determined quite yet, that is all pedigree
        analysis. He is very talented.

  16. / Reply

    July 20 Cherokee Devotional

    Having done all, stand. Stop saying you wish you had done differently, stop the anger, and above all, stop acting like a donkey. Having done all, stand still and see it work, support it by keeping faith on your lips-not pitiful insecure words.
    When a thing is right, it is right. Stand on it and make it a part of your innermost spirit. How can your consciousness work to any advantage if you keep running in circles and doubting what you had to do? All the circumstances will come into play and make final decisions but standing for right was your part-and you did it!

    For all these things we thank the Great Ruler and Him only!
    Sa-Go-Ye-Wat-Ha
    Seneca Chief

  18. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.Very wise words!We have a new rat called Zuzu and she’s not prepared for Monday!!!They certainly enjoyed their ice cream.Poor Merin nearly falling off the nest Glesni was bringing in some new furniture this morning and the “bobs” were annoyed with her.She had no idea where to place it.Monty caught 35 fish again to feed his ever-growing brood plus the one Glesni got!
    Andy played really well then yesterday nearly went 2 sets down but suddenly woke and now GB is in the semis!The golf was fabulous yesterday with the amateur Paul Dunne in the lead(so far)there are many in contention but don’t mention the cricket!
    Mango is practicing and preparing to leave for Hollywood on Wednesday!She needs the dreaded bath on Tuesday.wittle Katy is improving steadily.Think Fubu is visiting the doc today.Praying for him.Boo looked cute in his sunspecs.Heard they are planning a documentary on our Channel 4 about Prince Philip’s sisters whoops!!!On a lighter note. George will be 2 on Wednesday.Hope we get some pics.Remember to turtle!Have a good day.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly,Nikko and Sugar.SheenaXOXO.

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena,

      Yes, I saw Zuzu. Made me think of Jerry and Ann’s beautiful Zazu. I miss her! The ospreys are as entertaining as ever. So glad you enjoyed yesterday’s golf. Can;t wait to hear about Hollywood from Mango’s perspective. That’s wonderful that Kathy is getting better. Poor Fubu. Life is such a struggle for him. I join you in prayers for him. Loved the pic of Boo in his sunglasses. You’ll have to fill us in on the documentary. Hard to believe George is turning 2. I’m sure there will be lots of pics. I will be turtling today. Happy Monday. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

    • / Reply

      Hi! Sheena, About 9:30am EST, I checked on the bobs and I thought I saw Merin testing her wings, hovering, and flying to the other side of the nest, twice. I about had a heart attack. What would happen if one of the bobs did fall out of the nest? Would they be able to get back up there from the ground? Thanks, Mary Margaret.

  19. / Reply

    Team Z, especially John & Dottie:

    Thank you! This was an interesting & informative read. I did love the reference to Zenny’s “beam” most of all though!

  20. / Reply

    Great information on the boys. Love the explanation of body types of Zenny’s boys. Thank you for the time you take for Zenyatta’s fans. We love her.

  21. / Reply

    Thank you for the Question an Answer section.

    Thanks to John S and Dottie. They are always so helpful and willing to share their expertise to us.

  22. / Reply

    Dear Mary Margaret.I asked them at the Dyfi about Merin and they told me she would most probably have flown back to the nest because she’s so near to fledging now her wings are strong enough.No doubt she would have been confused on the ground.It seems mum and siblings weren’t bothered at all at the sight of her almost disappearing!I tend to get sad this time of year at the thought of the perilous journey that lies ahead for them and if they will survive.Hugs Sheena.

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena, Thank you so much for the info from the Dyfi. Whew. This is my first opportunity to see the Merin’s & Celyn’s flight try outs. They all are so beautiful and getting so strong. It is so scary thinking of their upcoming journey in about 5-8 weeks. We can only pray their guardian angels will be guiding them. I’ll be saying some extra prays for each family member to have a safe journey. As I recall Glesni took off mid-August, leaving Monty with the responsibilities until he left in September after Deri & Glynant left on their own. Thanks again. Take good care. Mary Margaret.

  24. / Reply

    Dear Sheena:

    Goodnight. Congrats to ZJ. Love and Hugs, JB, LM, PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  25. / Reply

    Dear Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Happy Dreams; comfy and cozy. Love Ya. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

  28. / Reply

    Dear Zenny, Dottie and John and of course Team Z:
    I loved reading this post. It is always exciting to read news on Zenny’s boys. They are both so beautiful!!

    I am hoping Coz races again in Saratoga.

    It’s always a real treat to read a post from John and Dottie!!! What does Sophie think of being in New York?

    All the best to all of you.

    Love,
    Linda in NJ.

  29. / Reply

    Could we please get some updates about the Queen? How is she progressing during her 4th pregnancy? I’d like to see some pictures of “The Bump”.

      • / Reply

        In Zenny’s case, based on her Amazonian proportions, that would make the foal the size of an ant. To me, it’s still “the Bump” no matter how teeny! :-)

  30. / Reply

    Oops! In my last post about Saratoga, I goofed; opening day is this Friday, not Thursday. Sorry..

    This Wednesday evening, there is going to be a benefit for the Permanently Disabled Jockeys fund at the OTB in Albany. Johnny V, Javier & the Ortiz brothers will be there to sign autographs, trainers Chad Brown & Abagail Adsit & owners Roddy Valente & Tom Gallo will be tending bar.

    If I can pick up my new car before then & have transportation, I will try to get there & ask Chad Brown how Lady Eli is doing. I will also let him know that many of us on Zenny’s blog are praying for her if I see him.

    I will say this now so I don’t forget later: Good luck, John, to you & your horses at the tough Saratoga meet. I hope to see you & the Mosses there when I go. Coz & Ziconic, enjoy training at this “vacation track”.

    Momma Z, I hope you have a great summer as you nurture your baby inside you & help her/him grow strong for his/her debut into the world next spring.

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