Zenyatta

Queen of Racing

Ask The Experts

Ask The Experts #29

Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo
Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo

Q:

How large is Cozmic One and how does he compare in size to Zenyatta at the same age?

Lib Berry

Phoenix, AZ

A:

Coz is approximately 1,060 pounds and 16’3 at this time. One of the big differences between Coz and Zenyatta is that she has an amazing beam (this is how wide a horse is from hip bone to hip bone). Ziconic, at this stage of his life, is smaller than both Zenyatta and Coz but he does have her beam. Ziconic is robust while Coz is classic in his physical appearance.

Expert: John Shirreffs

Q:

I have great admiration for John as a trainer and Dottie as a manager along with the other very perceptive and knowledgeable team you surround yourselves with.  Knowing how closely you listen to and monitor each horse as an individual, how do you make the decision to run a horse, in what type of race, and on what surface?

Sheryl North

Tucson, AZ

A:For a first time starter, you must feel comfortable with the fact that the horse is physically and mentally ready to start his/her career. Timing and physical condition for a first time starter is more important than the surface.  

As for surface, unless you know a horse prefers either dirt or turf (from the morning training or prior races), I (John) believe that the timing of the race is most important. You want a horse ‘peaking’. If running well on the dirt, then you continue this. If not, and the pedigree is turf oriented, then the turf would be an option.

In most racing jurisdictions, you do not get to train on the turf. 99% of the time horses are training on dirt, so you have a very good opportunity to observe how they handle this surface from the morning workouts. Body language and how the horse moves is also an important concept to examine, review, and consider.

As for selecting races, so much of this is based upon how he/she is  training, both physically and mentally, and the class of the horse. The first goal is to have the horse break his/her maiden. Once this is accomplished, there are allowance races for horses to run in where they can ‘move up the ladder’ and show how much progress they are making and class they are exhibiting.  

Can a horse keep moving up the ladder, meeting more serious competition with success? This is the primary consideration here.

Below are the primary levels for horses to participate in as they are ‘moving up the ladder’:

• Break the Maiden
• First level allowance
• Second level allowance
• Third-plus level and conditioned allowance races
• Listed Stakes
• Graded Stakes: Grade 3, Grade 2, and Grade 1 (which is the best)

If a horse is having difficulty achieving at the various stages of the above levels, there are claiming races for those horses. They are offered at different levels and conditions in the various jurisdictions.

When you are selecting races for a horse, you are basically handicapping the race and the ‘results’ without knowing officially who the other entrants are. The entries are taken days in advance prior to the race. This is where studying races and the competition each day becomes extremely necessary and important. You must know who else is eligible for that condition or what other horse could be planning on the same spot you are. Then you have to consider whether your horse can compete with these horses successfully.

All of these factors are extremely important and must be considered. The goal is always to put your horse in the best race possible for optimum achievement!

Experts: John Shirreffs and Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Our Experts

js_ate

John Shirreffs

Trainer

John Shirreffs has been around horses all of his life and has always felt it was important to help a horse become significant, to make history. Zenyatta’s Breeders Cup wins helped his dreams come true. Read John’s complete bio.

dottie_ate

Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Racing Manager

As the Moss’ Racing Manager for the last 29 years, Dottie has actively been a part of each Moss horse’s life. It’s a family affair, as her husband John trains many of the horses that she manages. Read Dottie’s complete bio.

Reader Interactions

294 Comments

  1. / Reply

    I sure have the utmost respect and love for John and Dottie, Ann & Jerry and team Z.
    Thank you for all you do and all the interesting things you share. Sally B

    Goodnight my No 1 Zenyatta, pleasant dreams
    love you with kisses as well as to your sons
    loving thoughts of zprincess and my dear Sir
    Love, Auntie Sally B

  2. / Reply

    Freshman Trainer Sharp Ready for Saratoga
    HorseRacingNation.com July 20, 2015
    Not even a year removed from embarking on his own as a trainer, Joe Sharp has made a big splash in New York and beyond, quickly establishing himself as one of the top young trainers on the circuit as racing shifts to historic Saratoga Race Course for its 147th meet.
    It didn’t take long for Sharp, a longtime assistant of renowned turf trainer Mike Maker, to find success when he first ventured out on his own last September. The West Virginia native won with the first horse he saddled, and has been on a roll ever since while managing an outfit that spans several different jurisdictions.
    Sharp, 30, husband of ex-jockey Rosie Napravnik, credits his ability to maintain such a far-flung operation in his first year as head trainer to his time with Maker.
    http://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Freshman_Trainer_Sharp_Ready_for_Saratoga_123

    • / Reply

      Just saw a pic of Rosie back in the irons (exercising), I think it was at Saratoga. Wonder if she will stay satisfied with “ex-jockey” status.

  4. / Reply

    July 21 Cherokee Devotional

    She was e li si, a woman elder, a leader with great gifts, and what she spoke rang with truth. She said, “Every person makes a strong statement about who they are.” The words were simple and unpretentious but they were powerful, for every day we hear people telling us who they are. Some say, “I am sick”: others say, “I am broke.” Some have said over and over, “I am afraid.”
    Their claims are as good as done. They can make new claims of health and plenty and strength, but they seldom do it. But when these very personal statements come to our ears, we can remember to write out our personal beliefs of well-being and never part with them for a minute.

    You must speak straight so that your words may go as sunlight to our hearts.
    Cochise
    Apache

  5. / Reply

    Dear Zenyatta and fan family, Love catching up (which will take a week or two at least) on everyone’s posts. Zenny, your 2 ‘boys’ look so wonderful. Thank you John and Dottie for such great information (as always)!.
    Our trip was amazing. Got to see lots of horses, had wonderful hikes, and lots of study time early a.m.’s before sunrise each day. Will post more later.
    Missed you all so much! So good to be home.
    with much love, Elizabeet

    • / Reply

      Dear Elizabeth,
      So happy to hear from you — we missed you! Glad you had such a great time, too.
      Welcome home!
      Hugs and Love

  8. / Reply

    We’ve had some rain the last few days in SoCal. Saw this cute chuckle, thought some of you might like it.

    Things Californians get excited about

    Rain
    When avocados are on sale
    When it’s Raining
    Going to In-n-Out
    When water falls from the sky

  9. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.Thank you for the beautiful flowers!love those words “sunlight to our hearts” It’s quite cool in Wales today.I even heard Christmas trees and snow ploughs mentioned on the radio!Some sad news about Sir David Frost’s eldest son Miles died out jogging on sunday only 31yrs.The family are devastated.
    Mango is going to be busy preparing for her trip today and poor Katy knocked her eye on a table leg.She is better but Judy may take her to the dogster today.Auntie Michelle are driving them.Fubu has reached 12,000 “likes”he didn’t visit the doc yesterday after all.He has an appt thursday and being he had started eating Kimberly thought it better to wait.All three ospreys at Manton Bay and Lowes have fledged now and there are transmitters on the Lowes birdsI think they will wait until tomorrow at the Dyfi to celebrate George’s birthday.Beautiful photo of Joey!Poor Mr Fibbs got stopped by the po-po because his license was in Marty’s name.Zoe’s mum Diane is a very talented artist.There was an exciting end to the golf last night with a play-off.Had to laugh at Johnson thanking the spectators for coming to watch on such a beautiful summer’s day!Cold windy and wet.Hope you have a wonderful Tuesday.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly Nikko and Sugar.Sheena.XOXO

  10. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    You’re welcome! That’s so tragic about Sir David Frost’s son Miles dying at such a young age. The family will never get over that loss. I felt so bad when I heard that Katy hit her eye and it’s all swollen now. Someone is going to provide a cone to protect her. that’s wonderful! Congratulations to Fubu on al his likes! So much excitement with the ospreys! That’s smart on the Dyfi’s part to celebrate the birds on such an important occasion! I loved that pic of Joey, too. He was so photogenic. Fibbs was luck to get off with just a warning! Yes, Diane is a very talented artist. They featured the end to the golf play-off here, too. That’s funny commenting on the beautiful summer day when it was cold, windy and wet! Have a great Tuesday. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

  11. / Reply

    War emblem is returning to the US in September and going to live at Old Friends with Michael Blowen.Now aged 16yrs his strange and unfulfilled stud career has come to an end.Seems he just didn’t love the ladies!He will be accompanied on the journey by a vet and groom.he got upset on the plane when travelling to Japan.As you can imagine Michael is over the moon!Sheena.

  13. / Reply

    Have been “on the road” for a week so catching up is hopeless (Elizabeth, I admire your determination to try). I’ve read almost everything but much is too “old news” for a reply to make any sense. However, first and foremost, I have to say how very fortunate I was to have the opportunity to meet our Judy Berube!! We didn’t have a lot of time but made the most of what we DID have! She is just as warm and friendly as you might imagine from her posts. She drove to CT to pick me up and after gabbing over breakfast, we set off to meet both Hudson Township and Papa Charlie. They are both beautiful, and I must find a way to post some pictures. Also got to meet Frank who puffed up admirably to show me how handsome he is! It was a great day and a treasured experience. Judy handed me off to one of my all-time favorite former graduate students, and I had a nice visit with him as well.

    On the way home, a friend and I visited the “Walkway Over the Hudson (River)” which can be accessed from either Poughkeepsie or Highland New York (if you’re ever going to do this, the distance from the parking lot to the part actually over the Hudson looks like it would have been much shorter from the Highland side which is NOT clear from the ads). The views are amazing, but we would have enjoyed it a whole lot more if it hadn’t been so HOT! It must be spectacular in the fall!.

    Many thanks to John and Dottie for this very informative post. It was especially interesting to know about the handicapping that must be done before a horse is entered in a race as well as the different levels of competition. ALWAYS wonderful to hear from the two of you.

    Belated Happy Birthday to Ann Moss and very best healing wishes to Lady Eli. She is an incredible filly, and I join all of you in praying for her recovery. So glad to hear that Chromie will be going back to Art Sherman once his bone bruise has healed. It will be very disappointing not to see him in the BC, but there’s always next year!

  14. / Reply

    Great news about War Emblem! Now Old Friends will have 2 Derby winners. Always good to hear that one of these guys are coming home to retire.

  15. / Reply

    Dear Judy.Nissy’s peep disturbed a wasp’s nest in the garden and got stung a few times.She had to visit the doctor because of the severe reaction.Goodnight God bless you LM PC HT Cap Hercules Frank and all the sweeties.Love and hugs SheenaX

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena:

      Oh, that’s awful. I hope she recovers soon. Goodnight. Love and Hugs, JB, LM, PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  16. / Reply

    Enigmatic War Emblem to join Old Friends
    By Michele MacDonald RacingPost.com July 21, 2015
    THE strange and unfulfilled stud career of Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes winner War Emblem, who was sold to the Yoshida family’s Shadai Stallion Station in Japan for a reported $17.7 million in 2002 only to prove disdainful of mares, apparently has come to a close.
    Plans are in the works to ship the now 16-year-old stallion from the island of Hokkaido back to the US, where he will be pensioned at Old Friends in Georgetown, Kentucky.
    http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/news/bloodstock/enigmatic-war-emblem-to-join-old-friends/1919770/

  17. / Reply

    Dear Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Stay comfy and cool in your stalls. Love all of you so much. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena:

      It was a fun day. Good to meet one of the sweet Z’sters in person. Love and Hugs, JB

  21. / Reply

    Dear Max and everyone, Very nice young 2 year old colt to watch. He won race 5 Sunday at Belmont Park. Hammers Vision. Sure bet he made his PaPa Court Vision Proud. Very nice race. Such a nice win for such a young colt.

  22. / Reply

    My computer is giving me grief.
    Goodnight dear Zenyatta
    love you with kisses and your sons
    loving thoughts of zprincess and dear Sir
    Auntie Sally B

  23. / Reply

    Old Friends Farm tweet on Tuesday July 21, 2015
    WAR EMBLEM to arrive at Old Friends in late September &
    will be out of quarantine in time for @BreedersCup visitors to welcome him home.

  24. / Reply

    War Emblem is certainly gorgeous. It is wonderful to have him come home, too.
    I agree that he will get lots of visitors.

    Hugs

    • / Reply

      Sheena, It is 8:30am EST, I just checked in on the bobs. The nest is empty, first outing. I panicked at first than I heard Glesni, doing a lot of screeching and I hear the bobs answering. Monty is watching from the other post. The bobs must be on the ground. Hopefully, they will get back to the nest before dark. They must be very frightened.

      A very special day for Prince George, a future king. He is so adorable, like his dad.

  26. / Reply

    July 22 Cherokee Devotional

    Years ago, a very wealthy man was asked about the condition of his soul. He responded as he always had-with the idea that money can buy anything. A large sum of money was offered if anyone could give him tangible proof that he even had a soul. His business acumen was not in keeping with the spiritual, so he did not know his soul was a combination of mind, will, and emotions-the very things he used to accumulate his wealth!
    Many real things are not tangible-fragrance, the wind, sounds; but we feel their influence and know them to be actual and sometimes more enjoyable that that which is touchable. To hear the wind chimes, to smell the bed of petunias and honeysuckle, to feel breezes-these lovely things prove that we do have souls.

    My friends, your people have both intellect and heart; you use these to consider in what way you can do the best to live.
    Spotted Tail
    Sioux

  27. / Reply

    8:55am. EST. Dyfi is panning to another structure, I think where the bobs are presently stationed. I saw two of the bobs.

  28. / Reply

    Dear Mary Margaret.I have never known of a whole family to fledge on the same day before.The 3 bobs are preening themselves on the pole above the nest Glesni is in the nest looking as if to say”where are my babies”?Empty nest syndrome over here!!Looking forward to the video tonight.Hugs Sheena.

  29. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.A lovely devotional.It’s all go at the Dyfi think I told they’d find a special way to celebrate George’s birthday.It’s quieter here today not much wind and warmer.They look to be quite happy on the pole.My “babies” are all grown up!!I heard there is a terrific heatwave in parts of the US some woman smashed a car window to get a child out in Kansas I think .Zoe had a great day yesterday celebrating Daisy’s gotcha day very hot there too.Dolly’s internet is back on for the time being she had a pretty dress on!Fubu got brushed yesterday all floofed up!
    Mango is on her way and not even awoken yet I can sympathize and Katy is much better thank goodness Nay has taken time off to babysit.Mango had her bath last night.Mr Fibbs was dreaming he was in a river of doughnuts with no paddle he had to eat his way out!I am worried about James and Bob no messages on their FB or twitter since July 9th.The publishers have hired a coach for their trip to Germany people have been worried about Bob.They will have frequent stops so Bob won’t get stressed.I hope they are both alright.Have a happy day.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly,Nikko and Sugar.SheenaXOXO

  30. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    That’s great that George’s birthday and the fledglings took place so close together! Yes, I heard about the woman breaking into the car to rescue the baby. You’re right…it was Kansas. They have a lot of humidity there plus it was in the 90s. Terrible combination! Loved reading about Daisy’s gotcha celebration. Those furbaby moms can be quite fun-loving! I’ll have to go check out Dolly’s pretty dress. Glad to hear Fubu was being pampered. Hopefully Mango can nap during the long car ride. So glad to learn that Katy is improved. Wow! Fibbs’ mom is quite descriptive. He’s quite taken with donuts! Hopefully we will hear from James and Bob soon. Have a wonderful Hump Day. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

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