Zenyatta

Queen of Racing

Ask The Experts

Ask The Experts #29

Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo
Ziconic and Cozmic One stand opposite each other. Photo by Kyle Acebo

Q:

How large is Cozmic One and how does he compare in size to Zenyatta at the same age?

Lib Berry

Phoenix, AZ

A:

Coz is approximately 1,060 pounds and 16’3 at this time. One of the big differences between Coz and Zenyatta is that she has an amazing beam (this is how wide a horse is from hip bone to hip bone). Ziconic, at this stage of his life, is smaller than both Zenyatta and Coz but he does have her beam. Ziconic is robust while Coz is classic in his physical appearance.

Expert: John Shirreffs

Q:

I have great admiration for John as a trainer and Dottie as a manager along with the other very perceptive and knowledgeable team you surround yourselves with.  Knowing how closely you listen to and monitor each horse as an individual, how do you make the decision to run a horse, in what type of race, and on what surface?

Sheryl North

Tucson, AZ

A:For a first time starter, you must feel comfortable with the fact that the horse is physically and mentally ready to start his/her career. Timing and physical condition for a first time starter is more important than the surface.  

As for surface, unless you know a horse prefers either dirt or turf (from the morning training or prior races), I (John) believe that the timing of the race is most important. You want a horse ‘peaking’. If running well on the dirt, then you continue this. If not, and the pedigree is turf oriented, then the turf would be an option.

In most racing jurisdictions, you do not get to train on the turf. 99% of the time horses are training on dirt, so you have a very good opportunity to observe how they handle this surface from the morning workouts. Body language and how the horse moves is also an important concept to examine, review, and consider.

As for selecting races, so much of this is based upon how he/she is  training, both physically and mentally, and the class of the horse. The first goal is to have the horse break his/her maiden. Once this is accomplished, there are allowance races for horses to run in where they can ‘move up the ladder’ and show how much progress they are making and class they are exhibiting.  

Can a horse keep moving up the ladder, meeting more serious competition with success? This is the primary consideration here.

Below are the primary levels for horses to participate in as they are ‘moving up the ladder’:

• Break the Maiden
• First level allowance
• Second level allowance
• Third-plus level and conditioned allowance races
• Listed Stakes
• Graded Stakes: Grade 3, Grade 2, and Grade 1 (which is the best)

If a horse is having difficulty achieving at the various stages of the above levels, there are claiming races for those horses. They are offered at different levels and conditions in the various jurisdictions.

When you are selecting races for a horse, you are basically handicapping the race and the ‘results’ without knowing officially who the other entrants are. The entries are taken days in advance prior to the race. This is where studying races and the competition each day becomes extremely necessary and important. You must know who else is eligible for that condition or what other horse could be planning on the same spot you are. Then you have to consider whether your horse can compete with these horses successfully.

All of these factors are extremely important and must be considered. The goal is always to put your horse in the best race possible for optimum achievement!

Experts: John Shirreffs and Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Our Experts

js_ate

John Shirreffs

Trainer

John Shirreffs has been around horses all of his life and has always felt it was important to help a horse become significant, to make history. Zenyatta’s Breeders Cup wins helped his dreams come true. Read John’s complete bio.

dottie_ate

Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs

Racing Manager

As the Moss’ Racing Manager for the last 29 years, Dottie has actively been a part of each Moss horse’s life. It’s a family affair, as her husband John trains many of the horses that she manages. Read Dottie’s complete bio.

Reader Interactions

294 Comments

  1. / Reply

    Just added Holding Gold to my vitual stable. He is a 2yr old by Lonhro out of In the Gold…mom is a G1 winner i think…won impressively last weekend at Woodbine…i think it was 5f in 57 flat….another one to watch…maybe

  2. / Reply

    Dear Sheena, I do hope James and Bob are okay. Earlier, I saw Monty drop a wiggly fish in the nest and one of the girls took over, devouring almost the whole fish. Glad to see Merin and Celyn back in the Dyfi nest. I hope little Brenig makes back to the nest before nightfall. He must be very hungry by now. I do hope he is not injured. I’m such a nervous nellie when it comes to babies. Maybe Glesni can coax him back to the safety of the nest. Take good care, Mary Margaret.

  3. / Reply

    Dear Mary Margaret.I have a feeling Brenig fledged a bit too soon.I am like you a very nervous Nellie!!More sadness for Kauto’s Laura today.Her little dog Gucci was run over and killed.The driver didn’t even stop!!!Feel so sad for her but the neighs are back on Kauto’s twitter!!Woo-Hoo Hugs Sheena.

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena. Whew! Praise the Lord, I missed the homecoming but, now I can get back to the work on my desk and not have a fretful night. Our little boy made it back home. Whew! again. I wonder now what has Glesni so upset. Never a dull moment. Take good care, Mary Margaret.

  4. / Reply

    I looked at the ospreys last night-6ish am their time- and Merin was helicoptering and getting lots of air going from one side of the nest to the other, she did this half a dozen times and I thought today would be the day!
    I read Sheena’s note that they ALL fledged but saw only 2 in nest this morning.Thank goodness the third-sounds like Brenig-is also in the nest now-whew-and there are 3 very tired bobs resting with heads snuggled down and feathers blowing in the wind.

    • / Reply

      Hi! Debbie, I have been watching the 3 bobs all day while at work. Yes, they should all sleep well tonight. A new chapter for them started today. Thank goodness Brenig finally made it back to the nest. Take good care, Mary Margaret

  5. / Reply

    Dear Mary Margaret and Debbie.Harmony reigns at the Dyfi once more.I will post the video of Merin fledging tomorrow.The look on Glesni’s face when she realises Merin has gone is priceless but then,of course,she sees her as an intruder and tried to chase her off.In the middle of all of this Monty tries to build another shed and Glesni exploded!!!She’s had a stressful day seeing her “bobs” fledge in a matter of hours.Never a dull day at the Dyfi.
    Have heard Ryan Moore may be out until NEXT year!!!So many conflicting reports of his injury.He is missed.Hugs Sheena.

  6. / Reply

    Dear Sheena:

    Goodnight. Love and Hugs, JB, LM. PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  7. / Reply

    Dear Beautiful Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Hope all of you are staying cool and comfy in this heat. COZ, ZI, should be some nice shade trees at Saratoga. Love You. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

    • / Reply

      Dear Judy and Everyone. I’myoursugardaddy races again this Saturday July 25.. Race 9, 515 pm, Delaware Park. PP 7. Can’t wait to see him again.

    • / Reply

      Dear BGG, Thank you so much for this update. So wonderful always to hear about my boy.

    • / Reply

      Dear BGG:

      Thanks so much for this link. Orfevre has produced some gorgeous babies; Sunday Silence lives on. So many beautiful Japanese Stallions. Love and Hugs, JB

  9. / Reply

    Dear Judy.As you can see it’s been a dramatic day at the dyfi!So sad to hear Laura ‘s little dog Gucci was killed by a hit-and-run.Goodnight God bless you LM PC HT Cap Hercules and all the sweeties.Love and hugs SheenaX

  11. / Reply

    LOVE you and your boys Zenyatta!
    loving thoughts of zprincess and dear Sir
    Auntie Sally B

  13. / Reply

    July 23 Cherokee Devotional

    Anxiety is as contagious as measles. Even when we are calm and secure, listening to what could happen-what likely will happen-can drag us into deep anxiety.
    Be on guard against the spread of rumors and what “could” happen. Sure, things can happen and most likely will if we start listening to the sensational reports that the whole population could be wiped out by overeating. We could also be bruised by running into the bones of skinny people-but neither is apt to happen.
    Use some common sense, refuse to be roped into thinking every report is gospel. And give yourself credit for using your head in hearing anxious reports.

    We preferred our own way of living.
    Crazy Horse
    Sioux

  14. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.They were discussing anxiety on the radio earlier and how mothers are born to worry!The “bobs” are quieter today they are all in the nest at the moment it’s quite breezy and cloudy.So much drama yesterday especially when bobby bach knocked his sisters off the perch and couldn’t make it back to the nest.then Monty started constructing another “shed” Glesni flew into a rage.it was a stressful day for her.Mango has arrived in Hollywoof and gone to bed.She had a great time at Zoe’s.Zoe told me she’s saving up to come to Wales it’s cooler!The blonde mafia had serious looks on their faces!I wouldn’t want to mess around with Boo!!!Did you see the lovely video of Joey and the pics of him with Tom.They were made for each other.It promises heavy rain tomorrow which will affect the going at ascot for the big race Saturday Golden Horn enjoys firm ground.George had a party yesterday and Prince Philip attendedHe is staying at Sandringham with Lady Brabourne.Wonder what Her Majesty thinks???Have a lovely day.Great pics of Kauto weren’t they?Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly,Nikko and Sugar.XOXO

    • / Reply

      Dinner time at the Dyfi. Monty needs to bring three fish at the same time. These bobs have to learn to share. Right now, Brenig was giving Merin a fit over the fish but, she is holding on tight or she has one of her toes caught in the fish.

  15. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    I would agree that mothers worry a lot. Glad to hear the bobs are quieter today. Felt bad for Glesni. Her nerves must be shot. Mango sure had a long day yesterday. So glad they were able to have such a nice visit and a bit of a rest at Zoe’s. Zoe and her Mommy are so hospitable! I hope there are lots of pics when Zoe visits you in Wales. How fun!!! Very cute pic of the blonde mafia. I wouldn’t mess around with Boo either! I did see the great video of Joey with Tom. You’re right…their relationship was something very special. Oh, I hope everything goes well at the races on Saturday. May all horses and jockeys be safe. Glad George had a nice birthday party. Prince Philip and Lady Brabourne at Sandringham? Sounds kind of fishy! I wouldn’t think Her Majesty would think very highly of that! Yes, those were wonderful pics of Kauto! Have a wonderful Friday Eve. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

  16. / Reply

    Hi All
    Rivers is set to run in Indiana tomorrow…come home safe big biy
    ….
    Just read article on fb about Genuine Reward’s arrival at Old Friends….lots of details on Gennie’s life…..hit the board in all of her starts…i should have known that…
    Great pictures of GR
    …
    Everyone have a great day

  17. / Reply

    The field for the August 2nd Haskell Invitational is shaping up. The horses who will be taking on American Pharoah will be:
    Mr. Jordan
    Tekton
    War Story
    Keen Ice
    Bent on Bourbon
    Good Pick Nick

    Here’s a fun fact: every TC winner (except Seattle Slew) won the very next race he ran in after the Belmont with the shortest period of time between races (21 days) going,of course, to Secretariat who destroyed the field at the very first Arlington Invitational on June 30, 1973. Also, AP’s trainer, Bob Baffert’s horses have OWNED the Haskell over the years, winning 7 times. Let’s make it 8, shall we?

    NBC will be broadcasting the race live from 5-6 p.m. and post time is scheduled for 5:52 p.m. Of course, if you’re lucky enough to live near Monmouth Park, N.J. and can get there for a long three day weekend, you can enjoy the Pharoah Phan Phestivial which is Phull of Phestivities for Phreaky Pharoah Phans! :-) Beginning on Friday, July 31 the giveaways will be agoin’ and the booze will be aflowin’ along with a miniature golf tournament to benefit disabled jockeys, and for the ladies, a fashion show. By the way, on race day all ladies get into the park FREE on August 1st if they are wearing a derby hat or fascinator! Good deal! After the race on August 2nd, there will be prizes awarded to the Best Dressed couple and Best Dressed Pharoah Phan followed by a concert by Lo Cash.

  18. / Reply

    Does anyone here know the answer to this question. I was talking to a customer of mine about it this morning.
    What does it take for a horse to be able to qualify to run in the Arc de Triomphe. Is it similar to the US, etc, or do they have to have won certain races. Wondering if any of my favorites will run this year. Have a couple of Filly favorites too.

  19. / Reply

    Dear Peggy.I think the Arc is open to all TB’s aged 3 and over.They do have some “prep” races in France around September but no qualifying is needed.I am following Treve on her FB and website she’s on her holidays at the moment.I do so hope she can create history this year by winning a 3rd.She looks in fantastic condition.Hugs Sheena.

    • / Reply

      Sheena, Thank You so very much. Treve is wonderful. This reminds me of when Orfevre went on holiday right before he ran in the Arc. I sure do miss him. But he sure looks wonderful in his new assignment. Just beautiful. Anytime I can see the pictures of him-just over the moon-still.
      I have so many favorites this year and looking so forward to these upcoming races especially the Arc. Sure wonder if Gold Ship will show up in France. I hope he does. Don’t know with his last little tantrum, just don’t know what to expect from him. Sure hope he is doing well.
      Thanks again so much. Looking so forward to it.

        • All 3 year and older TBs cannot compete in the Arc.
          Geldings are specifically excused, which is why Cirrus des Aigles is never entered. There are also weight allowances based on age and sex.

  20. / Reply

    Dear Sheena:

    Goodnight. Hope Nissy’s peep is better. Love and Hugs, JB, LM, PC, HT, Cap, Herc, Frank and all the Sweeties

  21. / Reply

    Dear Z, COZ, ZI and Montey:

    Goodnight. Happy, Happy Dreams. Love You. Hugs, JB

    Z Princess, Dubai, will always love you.

  22. / Reply

    Dear Judy.I hope the rain that is expected over the SE of England tomorrow won’t affect Golden Horn’s chances in the big race on Saturday.He has never liked soft ground and John Gosden will walk the course in the morning(Saturday)Heavy rain and gales expected.Thank you for the link.It is always sad to hear of horses on drugs and especially an Olympic gold medallist.All is quiet on the Dyfi.Goodnight God bless you LM PC HT Cap Hercules Frank and all the sweeties.Love and hugs SheenaX

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena:

      Hope the bad weather holds off until after the races. Love and Hugs, JB

    • / Reply

      Dear Sheena,

      Thank you for our Hovis update. Sounds like he had a pretty good time with Aunty Becky. Very exciting that we get Book # 4 soon. Someone invite him to a party! Happy weekend everyone. Safe trip for all horses and jockeys running this weekend. Hugs, Kathy

  25. / Reply

    July 24 Cherokee Devotional

    Even in July there are lovely cool places in the woods. May apples spread their leaves to shade the tiny blooms of sweet william, and moss, rich and green and cushiony, gathers in rocky areas.
    Most wet-weather springs have drawn back into the earth and an occasional tiny trickle waters the wild plum and invites the goldfinch to bathe. It is a haven on a very warm day for both red and gray squirrels to romp and play-but not with each other as they are natural enemies.
    Get away from the rise in temperatures and let mother nature soothe your brow with songs of the meadowlark and the field sparrow. It is good medicine-very good medicine.

    What I say, I want you to take to heart.
    Chief Blackfoot
    Mountain Crow

  26. / Reply

    Dear Kathy.I used to love playing in the woods as a child was never a great fan of the seaside.My idea of hell would be a crowded beach on a hot day.thank you for the beautiful flowers.I feel the same when watching natural world programmes.how can anyone not believe in God.It’s very wet on the Dyfi today and the nest is empty(tears)I am glad they can get shelter though.We haven’t had much rain in Carmarthen yet and we are not that far from then about 70 miles as the crow flies.I really hope this wet weather doesn’t spoil GH’s chances tomorrow.Great to see Hovis back and another book.Karen said Lily is turning into a speed freak like her mum!
    Wow Mango is filming today she got the part!!It will give her mission plenty of publicity.Fubu hid under the bed yesterday so no doc visit and mum can’t bend to reach him so he’s got another apt today.Zoe had a great visit with Mr Alex.Such a fascinating life even knowing Mae West and Robert Mitchum before he was famous Miss Diane almost melted when he mentioned Cary Grant always loved him and liked he called his daughter Jennifer which is my other Christian name!The ratties were out in style last night and Mr Fibbs busy with his internashunal bizness!Have a fantastic Friday.Love and hugs to you,Kisses for Holly Nikko and Sugar.SheenaXOXO

  27. / Reply

    Dear Sheena,

    I’ve always been a lover of the woods, too. You’re welcome for the flowers! Sorry the ospreys are having to deal with a lot of rain. Fingers crossed everything goes well for GH tomorrow! Yes, glad Hovis was back. They sure are churning out the books! Very excited for little Mango. No one deserves stardom more! And did you see that Judy is going to show the producer Zoe’s picture today? She’s so charming, maybe he’ll want to meet her as well! Fingers crossed!!! I’m really enjoying Zoe’s Mr. Alex stories. Lots of famous names keep coming up! What a thrilling life he has led. Poor Fubu and poor Kimberly! I know Fubu hates the doctor visits. Maybe he’ll make it to today’s appointment. I’m enjoying martysmousehouse.com. It’s nice to start the journey from the beginning! I’m off today and the kids are going to the groomers.Have a great day and enjoy the weekend ahead. Love and hugs from me, kisses from Holly, Nikko and Sugar. Kathy XOXO

  29. / Reply

    I have been in Oregon and Idaho for the past two weeks attending a funeral of an old friend’s wife. Sadly, I also attended his funeral a few years back and delivered the eulogy for both. I have told Ann in NC about it but I will share with all next week. This has been a tough month so far. As I shared with Ann, I don’t have many old friends left. Good to be here, or anywhere for that matter.

  30. / Reply

    @Sandy–Went to see Jim Curry Wednesday night at the Altadena coffee house where he sometimes appears. He was in fine voice. Wish you had been there.

    • / Reply

      Glad to see you back here TC. Wish I had been there too!! Have you checked your email from me re the cappin’ contest?

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